Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the China Production Game Paperback – January 11, 2011

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Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the China Production Game Paperback – January 11, 2011

Product Details

  • Amazon.com Sold on
  • 0470928077 Amazon ASIN
  • Categories

    Books, Business & Money, Marketing & Sales

Reddit Reviews and Recommendations

  • 26 Reviews
  • May 20, 2019 Last Review Date
  • April 2, 2013 First Seen Review Date
  • 17 Reviewed on Subreddits

    China (4)
    worldnews (4)
    Entrepreneur (3)
    BuyItForLife (2)
    AskElectronics (1)
    ChineseLanguage (1)
    CrackWatch (1)
    ExpectationVsReality (1)
    HomeImprovement (1)
    Libertarian (1)
    and 7 more...

Discussion and Reviews on Reddit

China’s new "social credit system" is a dystopian nightmare [R]

11 months agoklepperx posted submission on Libertarian.
May 20, 2019
11 months agoklepperx posted comment on Libertarian.
May 20, 2019

I may be downvoted to hell for this, but in my opinion, they really need it.

The ironic fruits of communism, designed to eliminate all "deviant" behaviour, had the law of unintended consequences applied to it: You have a country full of people who lie, cheat, and steal as a normal way of life. They have no moral compass, no sense of right and wrong, and if manifests itself in countless ways:

  • They unanimously voted the "worst tourists in the world". They leave trash everywhere, they won't line up for cues, their kids' urinate and definite on the subways, buses and sidewalks, they are loud, they are rude, with no respect for anyone but themselves.

  • They all cheat on every test they can. And you think I’m talking about school kids, no. In a licenced, professional industry in which I used to work, we’d go all around the world doing education, continuing education, and PRESIDENTS of companies with hundreds of employees under them are openly, widely cheating on our tests. We tried to stop it but they just said, “this is how they do things here”. In contrast, the Koreans in Korea were studious, curious, listened well and studies very hard and did excellent on all tests.

  • Go look, here Riot after Chinese teachers try to stop pupils cheating students here were protesting that it “wasn’t fair” they weren’t allowed to cheat on tests. They actually have a point: if everyone else gets to cheat, they are at a severe disadvantage.

  • Go do business with any of them. I suggest you read “Poorly made in China” It’s a nightmare.

  • Ask any Chinese you like, “Who do you dislike doing business with the most?”, and their answer is best translated as “My own countrymen” Not to mention the thousands of fake companies

  • Go to China, guess what every single retailer has? A counterfeit machine. You want to buy something with the lowest denomination worth $0.80 or so? Yeah, they run EVERY single bull through.

  • Subscribe to the China Uncensored to learn more. I think he does a really great job.

So, in order to “play nice” with the rest of the civilized world, the Chinese government HAS to start doing something. They can’t teach morals, so they just have to financial penalize them into compliance.

If you have a better solution, I’m all ears. (Really, I’d to discuss this, it’s a very interesting topic). What else could be done? What do you think?

SINNER: Sacrifice for Redemption (MULTi9) [FitGirl Repack] 4.1 GB [R]

1 year, 5 months agoFitGirlLV posted submission on CrackWatch.
Oct. 27, 2018
1 year, 5 months agoFitGirlLV posted comment on CrackWatch.
Oct. 28, 2018

Donald Trump’s irrational trade demands on China [R]

1 year, 11 months agoUnderwood2016 posted submission on China.
May 7, 2018
1 year, 11 months agoUnderwood2016 posted comment on China.
May 7, 2018

Read this: https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077

Chinese manufacturers are really good at negotiating and they take “nice guys” to town all the time.

How to deal with Chinese suppliers?? [R]

2 years agobeowulfpt posted submission on Entrepreneur.
April 13, 2018

I have purchased some products to resell from a Chinese supplier. I was told that all products I purchase come with 1 year manfucture warranty. Fast forward 9 months, when I reach out to the suppliers about after service (warranty), I was told that I need to pay for parts to fix the products. I don't think that's normal, what's the best way to handle situation this?

2 years agobeowulfpt posted comment on Entrepreneur.
April 13, 2018

Boilermakers for Life! [R]

2 years, 1 month agohwillis posted submission on BuyItForLife.
March 4, 2018
2 years, 1 month agohwillis posted comment on BuyItForLife.
March 5, 2018

ctrl-v from their FAQ

> also mattels chinese factories 'responsibly' put lead into kids toys.

That isn't really how Chinese manufacturing works- American companies don't build or administrate Chinese companies. They contract out completely and really don't have much control over what the manufacturers actually do. Poorly made in China is pretty outdated now but it's a fun read on what it's like.

Nowadays it's more normal to have a closer involvement with Chinese contractors but if the product isn't carefully monitored it's still not unusual for things like that to happen. Foreign companies still can't actually run the factories without a Chinese sponsor, and that only happened recently.

Politicians criticize Genesee Brewing for buying fermentation tanks from China instead of New York. [R]

2 years, 10 months agoTheoreticalFunk posted submission on beer.
May 31, 2017
2 years, 10 months agoTheoreticalFunk posted on beer.
May 31, 2017


Read this book a few years back. Sure, it might be cheaper and you might be getting a good deal, but especially on food grade equipment, that's still a risk.

Arizona woman finds note from Chinese prisoner in Walmart purse. Note is a plea for help. [R]

2 years, 11 months agopug_grama2 posted submission on worldnews.
May 1, 2017
2 years, 11 months agopug_grama2 posted on worldnews.
May 1, 2017

Read "Poorly Made in China" https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077/ref=sr11?ie=UTF8&qid=1493677702&sr=8-1&keywords=poorly+made+in+china

But it is a fair point that it is not just China--I think China is just the biggest player.

Arizona woman finds note from Chinese prisoner in Walmart purse. Note is a plea for help. [R]

2 years, 11 months agopug_grama2 posted submission on worldnews.
May 1, 2017
2 years, 11 months agopug_grama2 posted on worldnews.
May 1, 2017

You should write a book. Have you read "Poorly made in China"?


Gotta keep the gonne cti ons tight! - Chinese winch solenoid box [R]

3 years agoMarch 30, 2017


3 years agohwillis posted on Skookum.
March 30, 2017

Copied from a PDF, maybe. I have this book and love it: https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077

Is it possible to find quality in China? [R]

3 years, 3 months agolurelurington posted submission on Entrepreneur.
Dec. 29, 2016

I have an idea for a niche product, but it needs to be really high quality. Can I find that in China? Or should I look at German or Dutch manufacturers?

How do you guys handle quality control?

3 years, 3 months agolurelurington posted on Entrepreneur.
Dec. 29, 2016

Do you think Apple products have bad quality? They are manufactured in China.. The problem is you can't just say you want high quality to a chinese manufacturer and expect to be handed an iPhone. You have to specify EVERYTHING . Don't leave anything to chance with Chinese manufacturer or they will cut corner and you will get something that you didn't expect.

I suggest you read Poorly Made In China By Author Paul Midler for a deeper understanding of how things work when manufacturing in China.

Why is Everything in CHINA FALLING APART? [Perhaps some insight on the current culture of buying, breaking and replacing the products, without any repairing.] [R]

3 years, 4 months agoKPexEA posted submission on BuyItForLife.
Nov. 30, 2016
3 years, 4 months agoKPexEA posted on BuyItForLife.
Nov. 30, 2016

If you enjoyed this, I would recommend reading the book "Poorly Made In China" which exposes a lot of secrets about Chinese factories making substandard products.



3 years, 4 months agoNov. 25, 2016


FYI: Major recall on almost every dehumidifier brand [R]

3 years, 5 months agoNov. 8, 2016


3 years, 5 months agorezerox posted on HomeImprovement.
Nov. 9, 2016

I wouldn't feel too bad. It appears to have been a chinese factory and this sadly is the norm for them.

I'd give this a read if you are interested. Very entertaining book about what goes on behind the scenes in the chinese manufacturing world.

Chinese Drugmaker Hid Data That May Show Contamination [R]

3 years, 8 months agosturle posted submission on worldnews.
Aug. 17, 2016
3 years, 8 months agosturle posted on worldnews.
Aug. 17, 2016

There is written a book about it. The book is banned in China.

If you buy from China, the quality will be unpredictable at best. Nothing special about pharmaceuticals. China never ever produces consistent, high quality anything.

Pfizer know that. They just doesn't give a shit. Big pharma belong in jail.

26 China-made MRT trains sent back to fix defects [R]

3 years, 9 months agoJuly 5, 2016
3 years, 9 months agosturle posted on worldnews.
July 5, 2016

They are no longer cheap. 12 years of 15-20% annual wage increases have left Chinese products surprisingly expensive.

The quality, on the other hand, is as shitty as ever.

They don't even know what quality is. They will do it poorly, when they might just as well make it good.


Negotiating with Chinese people [R]

4 years, 6 months agochunyukuo posted submission on ChineseLanguage.
Oct. 16, 2015

I've started a new job in which I'll be required to negotiate with Chinese factories in Guangzhou.

I've done plenty of bartering on the streets and markets in China, but I'm wondering if anyone has any real experience with business negotiations? Any specific language or customs I should adhere to when I'm meeting them?

I'll be buying, and trying to get the price down and better price terms too (like being able to buy on credit).

4 years, 6 months agochunyukuo posted on ChineseLanguage.
Oct. 16, 2015

Have you read Poorly Made in China? It's an interesting case study. If you don't have the time to order it, at least read some of the comments on Amazon, they're good anecdotes.

I've six or so years of business negotiation experience in three provinces in China, mostly in outsourcing. Some generalizations:

  • People might give you tips about "Chinese business culture," but they might only apply to that one city that they've worked in for the last eight years etc. I've gotten bad advice from people whose concept of "China" consists of an entire career spent in Shanghai/Beijing/Qingdao. This is an ancient country of 1.4 billion people; learn the Guangzhou dialect of Cantonese, befriend Guangzhou people and you'll be fine.
  • Negotiating in the business context is not like buying souvenirs at the Great Wall; if one side is really serious, they're going to have good reasons for demanding something.
  • Good negotiators everywhere share similar traits: They are quick-thinking, observant, and well-informed. That last one is where most Westerners in China fall short. They know their industry inside and out but don't bother to read up on Chinese law. Know the law! Particularly the laws that pertain to your industry! Read as much from the China Law Blog and other reputable sources as possible for Chinese law in general and make sure your company is squeaky clean.

Here's my soapbox: If people are going to screw you over, they're going to try to take advantage of what you don't know and most of the time that would be matters pertaining to legality in China. Oftentimes it's one side using a weak contract or just being ignorant of the law in general. This is especially problematic among Westerners who have learned a decent amount of Chinese. I've hired more than a dozen Americans and Europeans and only two have even bothered to read their own contract. I've dealt with a CEO who signed a procurement contract without reading it was rather perturbed when the six-digit invoice came. Make sure you have excellent legal counsel in China, and make sure the contracts are water-tight. Maybe it's the internet era, but it amazes me how often people skim things when they should be scrutinizing them instead.

How do you move manufacturing of a product to China? [R]

4 years, 8 months agogravelbar posted submission on Entrepreneur.
Aug. 2, 2015

Hey there,

I was wondering, if I have an idea and I think I should invest into its creation. How do you move its creation to China where I assume the costs are cheaper than in western countries.

Do I just google those b2b websites and start asking or what ? anyone took this road before?

p.s This is just a theoretical question.

4 years, 8 months agogravelbar posted on Entrepreneur.
Aug. 3, 2015

Ordered a sexy maid costume from China..... [R]

5 years agoDisappointingMaid posted submission on ExpectationVsReality.
April 10, 2015
5 years agoDisappointingMaid posted on ExpectationVsReality.
April 10, 2015

This is the original listing on aliexpress

The shoddy workmanship was to be expected, and it’s not like I’m going to be wearing this out anywhere, my deal is that the sizing was wrong.

I’m a seamstress, I make a lot of my own clothes, and I know my measurements inside out and upside down. I have a 30” waist, but can wear things as small as 28”, as long as I suck it in/have a bit of a muffin top.

And before anyone says I’m fat and that I deserve it for not being a petite Chinese model: I know I’m not small, I don’t have an issue with that. My issue is that I took my measurements and ordered the corresponding size, with a generous margin of error built in, and still received something too small to reasonably wear.

Looking at the size chart, I should have ordered a large, but I’ve been burned before by shittily made Chinese clothing, so I figured I’d go a size up, and worst case scenario I’d tailor it down. The problem isn’t even the waistband measurement, I had accounted for the fact that that may not be entirely accurate, it’s that the length of the bodice is so short that the waistband sits on or just below my bust (depending on if I wear a bra with it), which of course is larger and less compressible than my waist. So the 31.5” which would have been fine had it fallen at my natural waist, becomes this weird, uncomfortable mid-ribcage measurement, which restricts my ability to breathe and move.

The problem was even worse in the apron. The length around the waist was fine, but the straps were about 4” too short. I could either wear it over my bust, or if I pulled it down so it went across my waist, it would go up in the back so far that I had no hope of being able to do it up. If you look at the pic of me in the costume, you can see some weird luffing/looseness in the apron where it goes across my waist, this was the result of trying to do it up, and then pull it down so it actually sat across my waist and not covering up my bust, and look relatively normal while my boyfriend took a picture. As soon as I moved the apron would undo and re-adjust itself to hang over my bust.

For reference, I’m 5’2”, so it’s not like I have an exceptionally long torso that won’t fit a standard size. And it’s not because of a difference between the average heights of Chinese people and western people which means that the standard assumptions they use for patterns are off, the average Mainland Chinese woman is actually 5’3”.

Anyway, what I think they’ve done is cut the fabric to be the promised 32.33-33” across the waistband, and then when the garment was sewn, some length has been lost to the seam allowance. Compared to the way clothing is sized in the west, where the measurements in the size chart is your size, the finished garment will be slightly larger than that (to allow for comfort, movement, and drape), and the fabric will be cut even larger to account for seam allowances.

I also think that because the length of the bodice is not a measurement size charts typically show, so there’s no concrete measurement the manufacturer has to meet, they’ve actually deliberately made the torso shorter in order to use less fabric. This process is called “quality fade”.

Made in America [R]

5 years, 3 months agoJan. 8, 2015

I’m sure many of you here prefer goods made in america. Whether it be clothes, cars, or alcohol, we all seem to favor products with those three little words, “Made in America” on the label/tag. But is this really what we believe? Without getting too political, capitalism is built on the idea of maximizing profits and the vast majority of times, that means paying workers less, and by and large this is dominant economic belief in the country and the world. Now I’m sure all of you reading this wish that your iphone was actually made in silicon valley, or that your Nikes weren’t made in some polynesia sweatshop, but this is unfortunately the world we live in. So, r/navyblazer, I ask you. Do we really truly believe in “Made in America” when so many of us believe in a structure that makes that reality so incredibly difficult? Should Made in America products be considered to have an intrinsically high level of quality because it was made in an American factory over a Chinese one? food for thought.

EDIT: My goal is not to get in arguments with any of you but to foster a conversation :)

5 years, 3 months agormangaha posted on NavyBlazer.
Jan. 9, 2015

One of the big "gimmes" in this type of discussion is that things made in China are crap. This is not true simply because things are made in China, it is true because manufacturing companies make things according to specifications. If the specifications allow for a large margin of error (usually to keep up production demands), you will inevitably end up with crap. The big X Factor in any manufacturing, is quality control. If there is little to none, there will be quality issues.

At this time, I would like to admit there are definitely a world of other issues in Chinese manufacturing, but for the sake of this discussion, I don't really want to get into it right now. For those interested in further reading, take a look at (Poorly Made in China)[http://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077]

Now, to bring it back to America, how many of you have purchased Allen Edmonds Seconds? Odds are you took a look at the shoe and thought "Damn, I don't see a single thing wrong with it!". And yet, it still failed a particular standard of quality control that it was not sent out for normal sales.

Three of my favorite examples of quality control are Budweiser, McDonald's and Levi's. This is not intended to say they're examples of awesome products, but they know what they're doing when it comes to production.

Budweiser is the third most popular beer brand in the country. Yet you can buy a Bud anywhere and it will taste exactly the same. They produced 16 million barrels of beer and you don't have to worry that what's about to enter your mouth was going to taste like Budweiser.

McDonald's has restaurants all over the US and the world, and I have eaten at various locations (US, Asia, Europe, Mexico) and the exact same food items taste the same everywhere you go. McDonald's has food scientists to ensure every local area has access to the ingredients that will make sure the food tastes the same. I believe I read that for Moscow, they had to find a particular type of cow and genetically bred a particular type of potato.

Levi's I am specifically including because much of their manufacturing is outside the US. Although there can be a bit of a swing in consistency between sizes, for the most part, I can safely walk into ANY store selling Levi's, pick up my size and cut and buy it without trying it on (depending on how picky I am feeling about fit that day).

I have no doubt there will be naysayers to these examples, and that's fine. I believe they're examples of excellent quality control. And ultimately, I think that's where the fault lies. In certain Made in America products, the level of quality control is just higher.

And just for the sake of making a list here is a generic wardrobe one could make using things made in the USA.


  • Oak Street Boot Company
  • Alden
  • Allen Edmonds (most of my collection)
  • Rancourt
  • Quoddy
  • Walk-Over


  • Darn Tough (personal favorite)

  • Thorlo

  • Zkano


  • Duluth Trading

  • American Apparel

  • Union House

  • Body Aware


  • Bill's

  • Alex Maine

  • Jack Donnelly


  • Gustin

  • Round-House

  • The Stronghold

  • Left Field

  • a billion others


  • Gitman Vintage

  • New England Shirt Company

  • Hamilton Shirt Co

  • Mercer

  • Many others


  • American Giant

  • Good Wear

  • TS Designs (completely vertically integrated, as the company says "from dirt to shirt")


  • Anderson Little

  • Brooks Brothers (not all of them)


  • Hardwick

  • Hickey Freeman

  • Hart Schaffner Marx


  • Gitman Brothers

  • Robert Graham

  • Collared Greens

  • Jetset threads


  • Columbiaknit

Anyone else can feel free to add on to this list

Why don't employers outsource (to India or wherever) jobs for web and mobile developers? [R]

5 years, 5 months agomyevillaugh posted submission on cscareerquestions.
Oct. 22, 2014

Just curious. If I had a start up and needed web dev, I would be swayed to look offshore, but I'm a prospective CS/bootcamp student.

5 years, 5 months agomyevillaugh posted on cscareerquestions.
Oct. 22, 2014

Offshoring is not as simple as it seems.

1) You have to specify everything in the spec. While something may seem obvious to you, it is not to them, and they will create to the letter of the spec.

2) Quality is a problem. You will have to look through all the code to make sure everything is done right. An anecdotal case was a website that looked great and was designed to spec, but the sql statements were created by concatenating strings. Uncaught, this would have left the site open to sql injection attacks. My friend had to go in and fix those himself. If you want to read on what you'll have to deal with, read Poorly Made in China. You will be dealing with the software equivalent of these problems.

3) They will probably not follow your processes, even if it's in the contract. You'll have to chase after them to ensure this, and even then, they may still ignore this part. This can be as simple as requesting regular check-ins to git.

4) The most popular outsourcing sites do a lot of work for a variety of companies, leading to large demand and a lot of poaching. I've heard of times where developers switched jobs as often as three months.

5) They won't accept stock as compensation. They will expect cold, hard cash.

6) This follows from #5, but they won't believe in the product like you or your employees would.

7) Good luck enforcing any contracts on a start-up budget. The court systems in all of the outsourcing countries are a mess.

8) All of the above lead to this: It's a full time job managing offshore vendors.

Pro-tips for business? Based on some conversations in this week's Pro tips post, my husband and I have been discussing the perils of doing business in China. Please share your stories and experiences! [R]

5 years, 7 months agoSept. 7, 2014


5 years, 7 months agoCapitalistMarxist posted on China.
Sept. 8, 2014

not exactly the same, but this is a good, and rather critical story of a guy who acts as an intermediary for American companies looking to source their products in China.


Question about Selling Product to a Chinese Company [R]

5 years, 11 months agoMay 9, 2014


5 years, 11 months agoKPexEAw posted on China.
May 9, 2014

The trading company is most likely owned by a relative and they are using it to share a piece of the action with family members.

This exact scenerio is discussed in this book about buying and selling to companies in China.

(Serious) Need some help. I ordered some furniture, paid the deposit but ... [R]

6 years agosturle posted submission on China.
March 24, 2014

I ordered some tailored furniture and deposited half the money and gotten confirmation of the transfer (~16k rmb) from a fairly large shop in the furniture market in one of the cities in Zhejiang. It took 3 months exchanging CADs and we finally agreed on the final look of the product, size and specifications (everything) (agreement was on both sides). Price went up by 6k, because of some material changes and extra designs, which I agreed to.

3 months later they said it's all ready and asked me to transfer the the other half of the money. I said, first send me photos of all the finished goods. It took a whole month to finally get them to send me a photo of the goods (they kept giving some lousy excuses). Keep in mind that I ordered a whole living room's worth of furniture, but they sent me one 640x640 photo of just the sofa. The sofa was horrendous, it didn't look good and there were a lot of design differences from the sofa that we agreed upon. Not only is the design very different, from the photo they've obviously skimped on the quality, used cheaper materials, took shortcuts, changed the details and some of the colors are off. The "ready" sofa in their factory was clearly a lot different to the sofa in the CAD and the sofa that we saw in their shop. Their reply to this was 'some changes are usual'.

I honestly just want my money back because the sofa is not nice looking at all and it just looks too different from what I ordered, I don't know anything about all the other furniture I ordered. I know that this is China and that I won't ever see that money back. I'm not getting the exact sofa that I ordered. The whole point of getting a tailored sofa is the ability to customize its look completely but they didn't deliver on that. What can I do?

This is why we don't buy electrolytic caps from the surplus store... X-post from /r/audiorepair [R]

6 years, 1 month agoJim-Jones posted submission on electronics.
March 3, 2014
6 years, 1 month agoJim-Jones posted on electronics.
March 3, 2014

I Tested a Replacement eBay Macbook Battery--am I right in saying that it is deceptive/fake? [R]

6 years, 4 months agoJim-Jones posted submission on AskElectronics.
Dec. 16, 2013

I purchased a replacement MBP battery from an eBay seller in China, and it felt incredibly light when I opened the box. I weighed it and replaced the dying battery in the laptop. I found out it was only ~70% of the weight of the original Apple one it was replacing!

After 1 charge cycle, I had found that its performance was very poor compared with what I expected a new battery would be like, so I performed a battery drain test on both the eBay battery, and the bad battery I was replacing. My data and screenshots can be found here: http://imgur.com/a/Hkxe3

Can AskEle help me understand if my data supports my claim that this battery hold much less than the advertised 74Wh? My thinking was that a 50W draw for 1 hr means that the battery holds ~50Wh. And that the rating that the battery is reporting in System Profiler is inflated, as the rate at which mAh is drained off is at a much higher rate than on my dying battery. Also, in real-world tests, this new eBay battery lasts only twice as long as an abused battery with over 1200 charge cycles on it! From my understanding, Li-Ion batteries typically lose 50% charge capacity after ~500 charge cycles.

6 years, 4 months agoJim-Jones posted on AskElectronics.
Dec. 16, 2013

[Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the China Production Game] (http://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077)

Everything will be explained.

As for your item, file a complaint with eBay.

EDIT: Above is a link to the book on Amazon. It's one of the most interesting books I've read in a long time. I'll never eat any Chinese made food or rub anything they make on my skin after reading it.

I opened up a commercial battery pack to find this. [R]

7 years agoJim-Jones posted submission on WTF.
April 2, 2013
7 years agoJim-Jones posted on WTF.
April 2, 2013

I can highly recommend [THIS] (http://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470928077) book:

Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the China Production Game