Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America Paperback – October 11, 2005

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Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America Paperback – October 11, 2005

Product Details

  • Amazon.com Sold on
  • 0767916891 Amazon ASIN
  • Categories

    Books, History, Americas

Reddit Reviews and Recommendations

  • 15 Reviews
  • Oct. 10, 2017 Last Review Date
  • June 29, 2013 First Seen Review Date
  • 14 Reviewed on Subreddits

    MapPorn (2)
    AMA (1)
    AdviceAnimals (1)
    AskAnAmerican (1)
    AskHistorians (1)
    AskSocialScience (1)
    Christianity (1)
    MensRights (1)
    ShitAmericansSay (1)
    explainlikeimfive (1)
    and 4 more...

Discussion and Reviews on Reddit

Black Americans of Reddit, how do you feel when white Americans describe themselves as “Irish” or “German” or “French”, etc. — despite not having citizenship (or close ties) from those countries — and do you see it as a kind of subtle form of white supremacy and/or racism in the US context? [R]

1 year, 11 months agoOct. 10, 2017

[removed]

1 year, 11 months ago[deleted] posted comment on AskAnAmerican.
Oct. 10, 2017

Are you unaware that "scots-irish" isn't a description of the direct ancestors of a group, but the description of a collection of cultural practices isolated by the cost of travel and living in the Appalachian range, more specifically the Blue Ridge?

Here's a book: https://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891

>More than 27 million Americans today can trace their lineage to the Scots, whose bloodline was stained by centuries of continuous warfare along the border between England and Scotland, and later in the bitter settlements of England’s Ulster Plantation in Northern Ireland. Between 250,000 and 400,000 Scots-Irish migrated to America in the eighteenth century, traveling in groups of families and bringing with them not only long experience as rebels and outcasts but also unparalleled skills as frontiersmen and guerrilla fighters. Their cultural identity reflected acute individualism, dislike of aristocracy and a military tradition, and, over time, the Scots-Irish defined the attitudes and values of the military, of working class America, and even of the peculiarly populist form of American democracy itself.

The British Origins of America's Political Divide [493x472] [R]

2 years agoAug. 30, 2017
2 years agodelugetheory posted on MapPorn.
Aug. 30, 2017

Edit: I found the original article that this map comes from, and it explains everything I was trying to say below much better than I ever could. It's well worth a read!

> But the closer to the equator you get, the more religious people are and that consequently probably affects politics.

What? My 'oversimplification' meter just broke. ~~The Puritans and their like in New England were far more religious than the wild Scots-Irish and English aristocracy in the South. That situation has kinda reversed in modern times, but what in the heck does that have to do with the equator??~~ (Edit: I retract this statement. I accused u/3ii3 of oversimplifying and then I oversimplified in the next sentence. Doh. See u/Ruire's far more informed view on the matter below.) You can't really divide America (or the world) into cultural regions based on temperature.

I think you are correct that geography has a greater influence on modern American regionalism than do the British roots of Americans. I mean, how many Americans can actually name a specific region in Britain that they can trace their ancestry back to? However, it's not entirely accurate to say that 'most Americans are of German descent.' British-Americans still represent the largest group of white Americans, they've just been here so long that they no longer identify as British. From Wikipedia:

> In the 2000 census, self-identified German Americans made up 17.1% of the U.S. population, followed by Irish Americans at 12%, as reported in the 2000 U.S. Census. This makes German and Irish the largest and second-largest self-reported ancestry groups in the United States. Both groups had high rates of immigration to the U.S. beginning in the mid-19th century, triggered by the Great Famine in Ireland and the failed 1848 Revolution in Germany. However, English-Americans and British-Americans are still considered the largest ethnic group due to a serious under count following the 2000 census whereby many English and British Americans self-identified under the new category entry 'American' considering themselves 'indigenous' because their families had resided in the US for so long or, if of mixed European ancestry, identified with a more recent and differentiated ethnic group.

Going back to the relevance of British roots in early America, I'm currently reading Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America by Jim Webb, and it's really fascinating how a lot of animosity toward the English carried over to America when the Scots-Irish were banished to the mountains and to poverty by the English planter aristocracy. He makes a really fascinating-to-think-about point that the American Revolution and Civil War were kind of an echo of the Wars of Scottish Independence and the English Civil War, with wild, Celtic mountain-men going to war against a more settled Anglo-Saxon civilization trying to drag them kicking and screaming into the global order.

So next time you see a Southerner (who is likely of Scots-Irish descent) waving a rebel flag (which is not coincidentally based on the Scottish St. Andrew's Cross flag) and cursing damn Yankees (of English and continental European descent), even though they are probably not aware of it, they are resurrecting old animosities that date back to the medieval British Isles.

[Serious] How do I deal with the fact I HATE islam as a religion [R]

2 years, 2 months agoAprilLudgateDwyer posted submission on Christianity.
June 19, 2017

[removed]

2 years, 2 months agoAprilLudgateDwyer posted on Christianity.
June 20, 2017

Well, look what the Scots-Irish have done to Christianity then. Drone killing innocent whole families, sin eaters, the Hatfield-McCoys. Everyone from Charles Manson to Dylann Roof and many more are part of that tribe.

But some are pacifists. I am part Scots-Irish, and I believe in peace and the greatest of all, love.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/februaryweb-only/lastsineater.html

https://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield–McCoy_feud

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/trump-and-the-borderers/477084/

Edit: Forgot one! The origin of the "burning cross." http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z3xhhv4

USA - Penis Enlargement Interest by State [1200x753] [R]

2 years, 4 months agoMay 3, 2017

[deleted]

2 years, 4 months agotruthseeeker posted on MapPorn.
May 3, 2017

Maybe, but it's not only outsiders who say these things. I've read a number of books written by Scotch-Irish authors from Appalachia said the same thing. This was one of them, written by Jim Webb, the former Senator who ran against Hillary last year. https://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891

Jim Webb: Party Has Shifted ‘Very Far To The Left’ Due To Obsession With Identity Politics [R]

2 years, 7 months agoHBombthrow posted submission on politics.
Feb. 13, 2017
2 years, 7 months agoHBombthrow posted on politics.
Feb. 14, 2017

. . . . says the author of Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America.

>Their cultural identity reflected acute individualism, dislike of aristocracy and a military tradition, and, over time, the Scots-Irish defined the attitudes and values of the military, of working class America, and even of the peculiarly populist form of American democracy itself.

In conclusion, eat shit Jim.

Why are American prisons awful and why is there backlash against reform? [R]

2 years, 9 months agoAprilLudgateDwyer posted submission on AskSocialScience.
Dec. 6, 2016

I'm looking for context surrounding American prisons. What caused them to get as bad as they have? Why is it that many Americans share a strong desire for capital punishment? What prevents reform from taking place?

2 years, 9 months agoAprilLudgateDwyer posted on AskSocialScience.
Dec. 6, 2016

Country club does reference federal minimum security prisons -- however the "ultimate" ones tend to be like, in Connecticut-type WASPy places. (My dad enjoyed one.) California has significant mestizo and even some Scots-Irish, that place is huuuuuuge and diverse.

New York has significant Scots-Irish, Russian, Irish and Italian populations, and I bet the max security in Russia is less nice than "Little Siberia" in NY.

This tracks the true scope of the Scots-Irish diaspora (many who just put down 'American' or 'English' on the Census: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/10/the-scots-irish-vote/27853/

Here is a book on the feisty feists: https://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891

Here is your Russian mafia Attica story: https://books.google.com/books?id=GhnYAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=russian+mafia+attica&source=bl&ots=ROfpQg_2Ua&sig=-V0P0gcKPdNpCEsjetXpf7OTc-k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAkLG8gOHQAhUFfiYKHYEnAF8Q6AEIIDAB#v=onepage&q=russian%20mafia%20attica&f=false

Can one become a redneck? If so how [R]

2 years, 11 months agoOct. 7, 2016

[deleted]

2 years, 11 months agoBillWeld posted on redneck.
Oct. 7, 2016

Oh hell yeah. Redneck culture is the most open and accepting of outsiders in the world. Check out Born Fighting. You'll need to live among us though to begin your transformation.

Daily Thread Thursday [R]

3 years, 6 months agothisisATHENS posted submission on rva.
March 10, 2016

What is your plan for the weekend?

3 years, 6 months agothisisATHENS posted on rva.
March 10, 2016

All y'all Scots Irish ain't neither. You're probably border English that Cromwell sent over to displace the true Irish.

This might be me though, we'll see what my 23 and Me says

Edit: But if you are, embrace your heritage. Jim Webb wrote a tremendous book on the Scots Irish

I live deep in the heart of Appalachia Ask me Anything. [R]

3 years, 7 months agoBillWeld posted submission on AMA.
Feb. 13, 2016

Ask me anything. Eastern Kentucky here.

3 years, 7 months agoBillWeld posted on AMA.
Feb. 14, 2016

Them's my people. Here are a couple of books you might enjoy: Born Fighting by Jim Webb and Steel Bonnets by George MacDonald Fraser.

TIL The Scottish Highlands, and Appalachian Mountains in the Eastern US are a part of the same mountain chain. [R]

3 years, 9 months agoHooked68 posted submission on todayilearned.
Nov. 30, 2015
3 years, 9 months agoHooked68 posted on todayilearned.
Dec. 1, 2015

They really need to stop. [R]

3 years, 10 months agoNov. 3, 2015

[deleted]

3 years, 10 months agored454545 posted on AdviceAnimals.
Nov. 3, 2015

Redneck history I can get behind.

Can anyone recommend a book about Appalachia from its settlement to the mid-19th century? [R]

4 years, 2 months agonoposters posted submission on AskHistorians.
June 23, 2015
4 years, 2 months agonoposters posted on AskHistorians.
June 23, 2015

'Born Fighting' By author/senator/certified badass Jim Webb isn't, strictly speaking, about the history of Appalachia, but it covers the development of Appalachia in decent detail.

http://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891

Street Harassment Isn't About Sexism—It's About [Class] Privilege [R]

4 years, 10 months agoblueoak9 posted submission on MensRights.
Nov. 5, 2014
4 years, 10 months agoblueoak9 posted on MensRights.
Nov. 5, 2014

Upvote, upvote, upvote.

What you are talking about is people asserting an Anglo cultural norm as the Norm and then faulting black people or whomever for "falling short".

"This is part of their culture."

Interestingly this is a feature of the specific cultures in West Africa that are ancestral to African Americans, specifically in the Yoruba language area. Hausa and other northerners remark on this and it is something of a stereotype. As it happens it's also a stereotype of Germans in Europe, one that Germans are aware of and are a little sensitive about.

Class and ethnicity are linked in America - obviously WRT to African Americans but it also true for Scotch Irish and others. James Webb has a really good discussion of how Scotch Irish culture has become emblematic of blue collar people in general: http://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891

Americans basically bleed confidence for a good reason. [R]

5 years, 4 months agoApril 22, 2014
5 years, 4 months agoAfflo posted on ShitAmericansSay.
April 22, 2014

Because American culture rewards confidence.

Slightly off topic: If anyone is interested in learning about some of the history of the American psyche, I highly highly recommend the book "Born Fightin'" by Jim Webb. He traces the immigration and influence of the Ulster-Scots (known here as Scots-Irish) in the US, and the ways that they have influenced, and continue to influence America, from militarism to suspicion of outsiders and government to country-western music to feuds in Appalacia.

ELI5: Confederate flags. Why do people still fly these flags? What exactly are they supporting? [R]

6 years, 2 months ago[deleted] posted submission on explainlikeimfive.
June 28, 2013
6 years, 2 months ago[deleted] posted on explainlikeimfive.
June 29, 2013

There is no dispute that the majority of the people in the south were small farmers, and farmed their own small rural plots or sharecropped. There is no dispute that only the wealthiest 1.6% of Americans owned slaves, a very, VERY small number of people who actually had any. (1860 US census). There is no dispute that the southern redneck, largely of Scots-Irish immigrant descent, hated government then and hates it still, and went to war starving and barefoot for their rights and freedom. Born Fighting, James Web You may not like to hear the facts, but you are making a solely personal conjecture and supposing hypothetically that all the poor farmers in the south went to war barefoot and starving, because they wanted escaped slaves hunted down. There is such extensive first person record of the Civil War, carefully archived, that it is not necessary to conjecture or guess as you have done. The facts and statistics are not in dispute as the records are well-kept and available. It is widely accepted by scholars that it was a rich man's war, but a poor man's fight. The revisionism occurs by those who wish to increase white guilt, by having it seem that most southerners owned slaves or went to fight because of slavery, when clearly, neither were the case. 1.6% of total Americans owned slaves. That's the fact. The bullshit is as you are doing: trying to pretend that all the rest of the regular people, the 98% of small and poor farmers, left their families to the unknown dangers of war in their home fields, and walked barefoot for hundreds of miles to suffer, starve, and die in the bloody, shitting, horrors of war just so that a tiny, tiny number of rich people they didn't even care about, could keep slaves.